Talk:Epilogue (Inquisition)
This page is a serious work in progress, I've got transcripts of two players' endings from Youtube and have merged them here designating the differences between the two with 1) and 2) respectively. Much more work needs to be done to find all the possible outcomes and give the page better formatting than I've been able to. I'll continue to add in branches as I find them in Youtube videos and my own games, but any help would be appreciated as I likely won't be doing more than that with this page. Drake0713 (talk) 03:12, November 28, 2014 (UTC) What remains to be done Ok at this point I can't find any more Youtube videos with their epilogue shown. 1)I still feel like there is a lot missing from the Empress and Orlais section; only Celene remaining empress has been pretty thoroughly explored, we have not seen any of the alternatives besides Gaspard as a puppet to Briala. 2)I only saw one ending with Viv as Divine and that video cut out one of her lines, so that is missing, and that play through supported the Templars so I do not know what effect making her Divine has on the Mages. 3)I have not seen any of the endings mention Loghain, but I would assume his ending would follow the same format as the others. 4)I really do not want to type up the Flemeth and Solas section, someone else do that :P 5) I think there may be more branches under the Templar section as well... Drake0713 (talk) 06:43, November 28, 2014 (UTC) :Maybe it's best we categorize the endings like in Origins and Awakening, but we'll save that for later. Anyway, try Danaduchy on YouTube for an ending where the Civil War ends peacefully.--Observer Supreme 15:38, November 28, 2014 (UTC) ::Ya I'd love for all the branches to be neatly organized and summarized, but that is not something I'm very good at, as for Danaduchy, his video added two new lines now labeled 1-4) the civil war seems anything but over in the epilogue where the three "make up"--Drake0713 (talk) 20:54, November 28, 2014 (UTC) :::Perhaps.--Observer Supreme 21:12, November 28, 2014 (UTC) This ending has some information on what happens if Gaspard rules Orlais alone & if Vivienne is chosen as the new Divine... (talk) 17:29, November 29, 2014 (UTC) :Added in the new lines, gonna try and tidy up some sections by grouping some branch continuations together, we'll see if it helps :P --Drake0713 (talk) 21:15, November 29, 2014 (UTC) ::The structure and layout of the epilogue really needs to be cleaned up and streamlined. Its almost incomprehensible now. - 09:07, December 5, 2014 (UTC) Alright, I went back through the branches and put them into collapsible spoiler containers to improve readability, it is not perfect or complete but I think it helps. Feel free to improve upon what I've done. It also illustrated some more missing areas and things still to be done: 1) What is the criteria for the unsorted branches? Once this is known they too can be categorized like the rest. 2) Verify the authenticity of (The Templars World State: Leliana as Divine, Order Disbanded) Is that the transcript or only a summary? 3) No transcript is available for (The Mages World State: Vivienne as Divine) 4) No transcript is available for (The Empress and Orlais World State: Celene Dead, Gaspard Rules, Ferelden is at war with Orlais) Drake0713 (talk) 03:08, December 6, 2014 (UTC) :In regards to #2 I'm temporarily removing this line: "They elect to remain with the Inquisition, unanimously and formally disbanding the Templar Order forever." since I have not seen a difference between disbanding/taking as conscripts versus taking as allies in all the youtube epilogues I watched...Drake0713 (talk) 03:20, December 6, 2014 (UTC) I think the formatting could use work. Right now, the collapsible spoilers squish the text up to the image. I have another suggestion, give me a minute or so and I'll show it. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 03:43, December 7, 2014 (UTC) :How does this look? It may still not be the best solution -- it's a bit clunky, and I'm not sure if it could be clearer. If we stick with the collapsibles, I'd suggest making them the small boxes, just so they don't create a big gap because of the slide images. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 03:51, December 7, 2014 (UTC) :Another look. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 04:05, December 7, 2014 (UTC) :: I think this is headed in the right direction. I don't think collapsible spoilers is the best idea--people shouldn't have to click so many spoiler tags on a single page just to get the info they want. -- 04:45, December 7, 2014 (UTC) :::I've made a change, with the exception of Orlais. It may not be perfect, but I prefer it at least, and I suppose I hope others do as well. For the moment, I changed Orlais's images to be centered -- I don't expect to keep it, though we could center all the images. :::Also, added quotation marks, because, well, we're quoting stuff. My logic is ever-fantastic, but maybe it's clunky and redundant (technically, the last section isn't quotation, but everything else). Or maybe it's not, maybe it's neat and professional. Community collaboration, I put it in another's hands. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 21:15, December 7, 2014 (UTC) Hello there. I'm new around here, and I'm interested in contributing some information to improve this page. I've no idea if I should simply edit the main page or if I should run the information through someone else before doing so. I just finished my second play through and had Vivienne elected as my Divine. However, the fate of the templars that I got was exactly what is written under "Leliana is Divine". It might be that their fate is not at all connected to who is Divine (unlike the fate of the mages) and rather something else? As for the lines which do not always appear after Vivienne's epilogue (under "The Chantry and the Divine"), I suspect that it is probably connected to approval. During my first run, Viv was also elected as Divine and the lines numbered 3-2 appeared. I'd say she only moderately approved of my inquisitor during that run, at least compared to how she treated my second one whom she greatly approved of. In my second run, lines 3-1 appeared. Also, I have a question about the Inquisition section - in my second run, I had the most perks under Forces but I got the line for Secrets. Might there be other factors that contribute to this or was there simply an error in my calculations? - PerfectSyzygy (talk) 14:54, December 30, 2014 (UTC) :I agree with PerfectSyzygy, I remember when I was first compiling this page there was one youtube video that showed a Vivienne Templar ending that was different from a 2nd Vivienne Templar ending. Furthermore, I spent the most points in Forces perks (all categories had 6 agents each so that shouldn't affect it) and still got the Connections line in my epilogue. My suspicion is that it is tied to who you use most for your war table operations instead of perks. I'll make changes to the Viv approval section but not sure about the other sections. Drake0713 (talk) 03:46, January 1, 2015 (UTC) ::Alright I made some changes to all concerns, what do you think? Keep in mind that the Templar Order is only still a thing if Viv or Cass are Divine, otherwise it is abolished. I suspect that helping Cullen finish his Lyrium withdrawl or letting him go back on it has an effect in this section but more testing would be required to figure out what/how. Drake0713 (talk) 04:29, January 1, 2015 (UTC) Support... Supporting any particular Divine Candidate doesn't ensure anything. My female qunari mage liked Cassandra's reform ideas, and supported her position; but due to other choices, and lack of faith, Cassandra was NOT made the new Divine, but rather, a much hardened Leliana. Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 07:06, December 8, 2014 (UTC) :Perhaps we could make a page much like Possible Landsmeet Outcomes? I know that allying with the mages and having Briala will help Leliana, but I don't know any exacts. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 15:39, December 8, 2014 (UTC) ::Yeah, such a page would be great. I have no idea why they ended up picking Vivienne in my playthrough, even though I supported Cassandra the entire time. :-/ It kinda sucks when such an important outcome seems to depend on some hidden variables and you have no idea what you did to bring it about. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 10:40, December 13, 2014 (UTC) :::If I had to guess, it's because you left Celene on the throne and didn't stress reform enough concerning the Chantry in dialogue. Not that it's necessary to throne Gaspard -- I got Celene alone and Cassandra. Toolset would come in handy right about now, can't tell exactly what dialogue does what, how the counter's going. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 21:18, December 13, 2014 (UTC) If I remember correct... I Let Celene keep the throne; said Briala helped, but didn't get them back together, and let Gaspard take the fall; though I did start by saying they're all fucked up, to which Celene got snotty. I chose the mages over the templars. I believed in no gods, and consistently said the chantry failed on all levels. I never believed I was the "herald" nor that Andrasta saved me. Also let Hawke save us, and Morrigan drink. Oh, told Leliana that Justina was creepy and weird; and told the other sister that Leliana was playing her like a tune while we searched the chantry. Leliana did run a few more important mission than the other two advisers. I'm not sure if secrecy had more slots; I kept them pretty evenly dispersed, but the Inquisitor had the fewest. I think she had the most agents though. P.S. I used the canned DA world, if that makes a difference.Shadizar666 (Ruck Rules) 23:22, December 13, 2014 (UTC) :Leliana's pro-mage, and in favour of rebuilding the Chantry from the ground up. So, allying with the mages (as opposed to conscripting them) and just outright saying the Chantry is failing non-stop will heavily sway towards her. Letting Leliana kill the person in the Chantry also hardens her -- getting her to not do it won't, not entirely sure how that works, but it likely helps to tell her not to kill the traitor and that "our soldiers aren't tools" or somesuch after Haven. Oh, and, er, not telling her to kill the woman when in the Chantry. :I don't imagine the Morrigan/Hawke choices matter, nor the the amount of secrecy perks. I cannot be 100% certain, admittedly. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 23:48, December 13, 2014 (UTC) It's all guesswork right now, but after talking with some folks, I think multiple decisions give weight to certain candidates and the vote is cast based on the final tally. The factors that can (!) influence these candidate weights: * Mage-Templar War (major boost): Free the Mages (+ Leliana), Recruit the Mages (+ Vivienne), Side with Templars (+ Cassandra) * Winter Palace (major boost): Support Celene or just let her keep the throne (+ Vivienne), Support Gaspard (+ Cassandra), Suppord Briala (+ Leliana) * Personal sidequests (medium boost): I presume completing each candidates questlines gives them a bonus, but not as big as the others. * Support operation at the War Table (medium boost) * Dialogue (minor boost): Or penalty, depending on whether you explicitly discourage them or support another candidate? Anything I missed? In any case, the biggest issue here is that we don't know the relative weights of these decisions, hence, it's all just speculation. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 10:36, December 14, 2014 (UTC) : That seems to match up with the outcome of my game: Leliana became Divine. The only thing I didn't do listed above is I didn't do Leliana's main quest (kept forgetting to talk to her later on). I kept Celene on the throne, but supported Briala as well so that Celene just exiled her. Also when Mother Ghiselle (?) talked about it, I said it was up to Leliana and Cassandra to decide for themselves (or something neutral like that, I don't remember the exact convo). -- 20:23, December 14, 2014 (UTC) Failed Game States The "Inquisitor is thrown out of the Ball" is not actually part of the epilogue but is instead a failed game state, as such I do not believe it should be included on this page... (talk) 22:30, December 18, 2014 (UTC) :I agree, and there are many other bonus game over screens. We could make a page for them, but even so this would not be the place. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 22:40, December 18, 2014 (UTC) ::I don't see a reason to split them off, since this article is basically about possible endings, and the non-standard game overs are endings. Unless there are really so many of them that they will overshadow the rest of the article, they and their unlock conditions should be listed in in chronological order in a new section before "The Breach" IMO. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 08:26, December 19, 2014 (UTC) :::They're not endings in the same sense, though. Unlike the rest of the slides they're not narrated by Morrigan, they don't appear in the final slideshow, and are not part of the continuous ending "Epilogue". I do think there are a fair amount of them: I know I got one losing in the templar quest in the Fade sequence, one in the mage, one for dying pre-Breach-sealing. I'd guess at least one for each main quest? Truthfully, not sure exactly how many there are, or if they'd make this page confusing. :::I do think it'd be worth including the companion's "plans", since I think they vary somewhat depending on your choices. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 08:47, December 19, 2014 (UTC) ::::Well, Endings currently redirects to Epilogue, so it's not like we have an established tradition of how to format ending lists... --Koveras Alvane (talk) 11:30, December 19, 2014 (UTC) :::::I wouldn't mind including failed game states on this article, but I think they should be placed after the actual epilogue scenes at the bottom of the article. Most people are going to come here looking for the epilogue, not failed game states, so the epilogue should be the most prominent feature of the article and the most convenient part of the article to get to. The failed game states are a curiosity at most. They aren't part of the true epilogue, they will obviously never end up being anything close to canon, even BioWare canon, and the only thing preventing someone from bypassing them in the game is reloading a save file from before the loss. Curate them, but don't mistake them as being of equal importance to the main topic of this article. Otherwise put them in a separate article. (talk) 19:07, December 19, 2014 (UTC) ::::::A reasonable enough compromise. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 08:25, December 21, 2014 (UTC) Since there are so many endings, how do we categorize them? From best to worst or the other way around? Or should we put it in something like "click this category to see the effects of choice A, B, C, D and so forth"? -- (talk) 13:03, January 1, 2015 (UTC) :The current structure is quite good, actually. And if you're asking about failed game states, I'd just put them in chronological order. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 22:21, January 1, 2015 (UTC) Inquisition Ending: Operations/Perks I got "Its web of influence is felt in every hall. Through diplomacy and the trading of favors, it has gathered the power to shake kingdoms." but i had the most perks in Secrets. Maybe the condition to trigger this is the number of missions (for each branch) on the war map? :If that were the case, I would have gotten the espionage ending, since I had Leliana complete a good half of all operations for me. Instead, I got the armies ending, and I was assuming that it was because I had the most perks bought in Combat. :EDIT: Maybe only certain operations count towards the final tally? Even so, I am pretty sure I couldn't gotten the armies ending just from that, considering how Cullen was mostly on resources duty throughout most of my playthrough. --Koveras Alvane (talk) 09:39, January 1, 2015 (UTC) ::I also got the military ending and had cullen gathering resources, and maybe that's exactly the reason. I've always tried to keep all three advisors busy, and while leli and josy were doing the "serious" work, I occupied cullen with gathering resources. But since some of the nonrepeatable war table missions take several hours to complete whereas gathering resources takes less than one, I used him more often than the other two. If the game counts every time you send someone out, this would be an explaination. SarthesArai (talk) 11:34, January 1, 2015 (UTC) :::I could've sworn I barely used Cullen, though I suppose if the resource gathering missions count it could make sense. I've turned it to the generic "Inquisition focused on X" for now, at least until we're more sure. If it is perks, agents might count as well -- so even if you mostly put points into Secrets, they could push you back into Forces, theoretically. – Ser Lavaeolus (talk) ( ) 13:08, January 1, 2015 (UTC)